Well, do you suppose sheep shrink when it rains?
It was a little joke that I wrote up more than 20 years ago in library school. I guess its my own little meager claim to fame in a very small corner of the Internet and I'm rather tickled that its made its way into the general folklore of quirky questions that people ask now. I wrote the funny question to the ARIZSLS email list at the University of Arizona on October 15, 1995 and got a whole slew of answers over the next week or so - mostly humorous (and one critical one from someone who didn't find it amusing that we were having so much fun on the school's listserv).
Searching around, I see at least 2 books and one song based on the saying and thousands of Google pages referencing the phrase.
So, I guess I'm claiming copyright to the saying. (And, in fact, I still have the email correspondence to prove that the question was mine originally. See below.) Not that it probably matters, but if anyone ever cares, then yes, I made it up first.
Mark Durham
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 13:39:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark O Durham <mdurham@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Reference Question
You know how wool shrinks when it gets wet?
Well, do you suppose sheep shrink when it rains?
Mark
===================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 13:52:00 -0700
From: Leslie K Alter <leslie@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Mark and other sheep enthusists....
Do you think that the lanolin in their wool helps keep the
wool from getting truly wet?
Leslie
leslie@u.arizona.edu
====================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 21:32:53 -0100
From: John and Tina Sorrells
<jtsorrells@JAX.GULFNET.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
I do not think that sheep shrink when it rains but I would
not be supprised to find out that the fur or hair draws up and curls more
tightly when it is wet. I do not know what would make it relax once it
dries out though.
Tina
=====================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 15:37:05 -0700
From: Cathleen M Butler <cbutler@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Another thought--
Rain is generally
cold. I think it's hot water than generally causes wool to shrink. :)
Cathy
======================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:03:12 -0700
From: Elaine Cubbins <ecubbins@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
the cool thing about wool is that some shrinkage can be
handled by getting the sheep wet again, then blocking it to the original
dimensions.
======================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 05:42:29 -0100
From: John and Tina Sorrells
<jtsorrells@JAX.GULFNET.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
That is true although it never seems to stretch out to the
original size.
=======================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:45:37 MST
From: Olivia Olivares <OLIVIA@LAW.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
I have found that a liberal dose of Woolite while soaking
the sheep will hamper most shrinking and prevent pilling as well. Blocking is effective, but it's hard to
spread-eagle a sheep.
Olivia Olivares
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a sort of
library."
- Jorge Luis Borges -
=========================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:13:19 PDT
From: Larry Almeida <piercepl@WLN.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Come on guys. These
are the kinds of trivial questions that make people angry with our
listserve. Everyone knows sheep shrink
when it rains. I've witnessed it
myself. Librarians . . . Honestly!
Larry
==========================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:04:15 MST
From: Olivia Olivares <OLIVIA@LAW.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Dear Mr. Almeida:
I read with
some dismay your recent posting vis-a-vis the decrease in mass of sheep during
inclement weather. While I do not
dispute your science, I question your assumption that all librarians possess
first-hand knowledge of this interesting phenomenon.
Mr. Almeida,
not all librarians were reared in rural or agrarian locales. I learned about sheep and their properties
from my grandfather, who was a farmer and landholder in Texas. He owned a number of sheep, as well as
several Nubian goats (by the way, goats shrink far less than sheep, an
important consideration when one's land is near the Pedernales, which tends to
flood. Goats are more buoyant,
too.) It was during my summer visits in
my childhood that I, like you, had the opportunity to witness the gentle
swelling and subsiding of sheep size during summer storms.
A few months
ago, I visited the Pima County Fair with a couple of library science
students. As I observed the wonder and
joy in my companions' eyes as they gently caressed the many 4-H projects, I
realized that not every librarian is familiar with barnyard creatures. And in any case, the weather was clear and
sunny, so sheep mass in the livestock section remained constant during our
visit, thus reducing the heuristic value of the experience.
Please
reconsider your belief in the broadness of the knowledge base of
librarians. I assure you, we all have
much to learn.
Sincerely yours,
Olivia Olivares
=======================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:08:37 -0700
From: Elaine Cubbins <ecubbins@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS <ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
so once the sheep is shorn, the danger of shrinkage is
minimized, right?
====================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:49:48 PDT
From: Larry Almeida <piercepl@WLN.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Dear Ms Olivares:
I apologize. Living as I do in a rural area (Pierce,
ID--pop. 750). I obviously assumed too much. We in Pierce think such elementary knowledge
of animals is universal. I imagine most
on the listserv have never seen a deer fly.
Ah, the disadvantages of city dwellers.
Again. My apologies.
Larry
======================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:40:00 PDT
From: Barbara Head <skid23@EUROPA.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
As a felter (one who makes felt), I'll add my two cents
worth -- Shrinkage of wool fleece results from the combination of heat,
moisture and agitation at the same time.
That's why taking a wet wool sweater and putting it in a dryer where it
gets beat up and heated up at the same time will result in a really tiny
sweater. Now, why are we talking about
this anyway?
==========================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:27:39 -0700
From: Olivia Olivares <olivares@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Barbara Head wrote:
> ... taking a wet wool sweater and putting it in a dryer
where it gets
> beat up and heated up at the same time will result in a
really tiny
> sweater ...
Not to mention
one royally pissed-off sheep ...
Olivia Olivares
================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:37:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark O Durham <mdurham@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
I find all of this discussion greatly, facinating. However, can anyone give me the name of a
book or some authority from which I can gleen the intricacies of hydropolar
sheep dimensions and molecular woolarities?
Mark
===================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:23:50 -0700
From: Sherry S Luna <sluna@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: "Wool: An Introduction to Its Properties"
...may be found in the Science Library at 677.3 058. The author is W.J. Onions. I also found
"Shrink Proofing of Wool" by K. Rachel Makinson also in Science at
TS1630.M25. I suspect that you could
look in any encyclopedia either on-line or in print and look up sheep or wool
or worsted material and come-up with the basics. For more in-depth info, a simple search of
the aforementioned as a keyword or subject will provide a number of hits.
For a really good movie on the trials and tribulations of
working with sheep I recommend "The Ballad of Little Jo". There may be a Monty Python flick or
recording that addresses sheepish concerns as well. For certain there is a Woody Allen flick and
more than a few Gary Larson cartoons.... Sherry
======================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 20:34:18 -0700
From: Jacqueline K Jakovac <jjakovac@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
It's not really true that wool shrinks when it gets
wet. Generally its the agitation and/or
the change from hot to cold water that causes the problem. Jacque, a spinner & knitter and grad
student.>
======================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:43:32 -0700
From: Charles V Dymond <cvd@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
C'mon, Larry, even city boys like me know deers don't fly
unless they belong to Santa Claus.
======================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 23:11:16 -0400
From: Karen Visel <LOXDOX@AOL.COM>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Gosh, I thought they hardly 'felt' it at all?
=====================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 05:39:55 -0700
From: Susan Robinson
<srobins@Creighton.Creighteld.K12.az.us>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: And now for somesheep completely different!
Well, if you read your Daily Llama as you should, you would
find from the shepherd that "it's my considered opinion that they're
nestin'. It's my belief that these sheep are laborin' under
the misapprehension that they're birds.
Now witness their attmpts to fly from tree to tree. Notice they do not much fly
as...plummet. One thing is for sure, the
sheep is not a creature of the air. They
have enormous difficulty in the comparatively simple act of perchin'. Trouble is, sheep are very dim. Once they get an idea in their 'eads, there's
no shiftin' it."
And where, you might ask, do they get the idea that they are
birds?
Again, ask the shepherd and he'll tell you......"From
Harold. He's that most dangerous of creatures, a clever sheep. 'e's relaized that a sheep's life consists of
standin' around for a few months and then bein' eaten. And that's a depressing prospect for an
ambitious sheep." However, he
doesn't remove Harold "because of the enormous commercial possibilities if
'e succeeds."
Heavy philosophy for those brave enough to consider it.
(From MPFC first episode)
================================================
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:23:41 -0700
From: Mary Beth Vender-Fay <maryv@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
There are a few of us who have seen a deer fly or a horse
fly. (I used to live near Bozeman, Montana
(population 30,000). Another question
would be how many people have seen a sheep tick or a dog flea?
Mary Beth Vender-Fay
===============================================
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 10:49:23 MST
From: Olivia Olivares <OLIVIA@LAW.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Well, I've never personally seen a deer fly, but I've read
about them ("Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer"; "A Visit from St.
Nicholas"; etc.).
My uncle Chuy once said he saw a horse fly, but he was
pretty jacked up on tequila at the time and noone in my family believes
anything he says anyways. As for ticking
sheep, one would hear rather than see them.
I have personally witnessed my dog flee many times, particularly when he
hears the word "bath". Olivia
Olivia Olivares
=================================================
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 14:04:14 -0700
From: "Linda L. Deacy" <ldeacy@SCS.UNR.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
Olivia - I feel I must warn you about communicating with
Larry. This way lies madness...
linda
==================================================
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 14:09:31 -0700
From: Elysees M Wheeler <elysees@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply to: Library Science Conference
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list ARIZSLS
<ARIZSLS@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reference Question
I have seen many "dogs flee" and "dog
flees" in my time, but never in my life have I ever seen a "horse
fly"...........
=================================================
From:
IN%"DON1927@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU" 16-OCT-1995 13:47
To:
IN%"~mdurham@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU"
CC:
Subj: sheep
I never saw a shrunken sheep
I never hope to see
one
I'll tell you true
however
I'd rather see than
be one!!!
apologies to Gelett Burgess +++ (why do I say that?)
Don Dickinson
==================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:15:00 -0700 (MST)
From: "Joan St.Germain"
<jgermain@u.Arizona.EDU>
To: Mark O Durham <mdurham@u.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: (fwd) WWW> hair sheep -- sheep without wool
(fwd)
Just saw this on the comp.internet.net-happenings newsgroup,
thought you might be interested ;) I was
planning to post it to the list, but chickened out. Decided I probably shouldn't stir all the
controversy up again!! - Joan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
*** From Net-Happenings Moderator ***
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:26:54 -0500
From: acdupuy@tyrell.net
http://www.tyrell.net/~cdupuy/sheep.html
Here's a look at hair sheep -- sheep without wool. The breed
featured on this page is Katahdin. Also
available from this page is info on sheep in general.
===================================================
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Based on an old AltaVista Search back in 1999, these were the next oldest references I could find to the sheep-shrink question, both considerably after I asked the initial question in 1995:
from:
http://www.umr.edu/~gbert/humor2
page dated:
Friday, March 29, 1996 4:01:07 AM GMT
From
Malcolm Renfrew,
Chemical
& Engineering News, Sept. 11, 1995:
...
Why
don't sheep shrink when it rains?
...
from:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dougb/duff/23.html
page dated:
Wednesday, March 03, 1999 9:29:53 PM GMT
Date:
Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:54:49 +0000 (GMT)
From:
STANGEL MICHAEL A
>HAVE
YOU EVER WONDERED...
...
> - Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
...
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